Welcome to the Marketing in the Wild podcast. I’m Julia from Stratos Creative Marketing, where we are obsessed with finding real-life examples of the good, the bad, and sometimes wild, in marketing.

Julia: Hey friends! Before we jump into this podcast, I wanted to come on quickly to do an acknowledgement of something that I’ve learned since the recording of the podcast. After my conversation with Erin, I was speaking with a friend, and she mentioned to me that the Jamie Lee Curtis Hype Woman meme has actually been hurtful to many women, especially in the Asian women community. Why? Because Jamie Lee Curtis’s hype has seemed to overshadow Michelle Yeoh’s much deserved win. This is something that I wish I had known beforehand, so we could have made time to interview and talk to Erin about it, but we didn’t. I didn’t know. And so I wanna acknowledge here before we get into this episode, that the Hype Women Movement is important. But that being said, the concept of a hype woman getting more credit than the woman who deserves the hype is also problematic, especially because of the racial dynamics.

The more and more I do my own self-educating on racial dynamics, racism in the world, systemic racism especially, I’m realizing that nothing is black and white. The hype woman movement can be good, and it’s been honestly a little convicting and transformative in my own life because I so often feel competitive with my fellow female business owners. And even while I can feel and see the goodness coming out of that post, I can also hold that intention with the fact that it’s been hurtful to some of my friends. So if you are out there and this meme has been hurtful to you, I just wanna acknowledge that. If this meme has educated you, I also wanna acknowledge that. I wanna acknowledge the fact that both can exist together, and that even as, especially as a white woman, as I’m approaching these things, there’s so much more than meets the eye, and I have to ask better questions. Hopefully, you enjoy this episode as much as I did. Just remember, there’s always things underneath that while it’s helping one community, might be hurting another community. Without further ado, here is our episode. 

Julia: Everybody, I am excited to introduce you to Erin, who is a new acquaintance, and I’m pretty sure a fast friend now. So before I introduce her, I’ll let you introduce yourself, Erin. So just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you are, and a little bit about what you do.

Erin: Yes, thank you. I’m thrilled to be here, Julia! Appreciate you creating this space for us to have this conversation. I’m the CEO and founder of Ella. We are an inclusive network unlocking women’s access to human and financial capital. I believe that the world is a better place when women have more money, and so it is the impetus and the premise and the mission behind all of the work that I do here. I’m a mom of two boys. I have a six-year-old William and a four-year-old Charlie. They are wild, and have taught me a lot about letting go, and realizing that control is theoretical when it comes to children. So I’ve really learned a lot about myself through them. My husband, Brian and I have been together for almost a decade now, and he also has been a huge part of my evolution and my growth. We lived just outside of Chicago in Arlington Heights. We were in Chicago for 12 years, and moved out here to get a little more space and to navigate the world now for Well School for the next couple of years, and it’s been quite a journey.

Julia: I lived in the western suburbs for a while too. Arlington Heights is one of the most beautiful ones, so I loved just driving around and looking at houses, because I’m an old person. Well, the reason I found Erin is because of this hype women movement. And so, that’s how I introduced myself, and I was like, “Erin, I have to have you on this podcast.” Partially because we’re a women-owned business, we love to highlight female voices and voices in general that don’t get represented in other places. So I wanna talk about Ella, I wanna talk about the Hype Women movement. Let’s start with the hype women movement. If our people have not heard about this, can you give them a highlights view of what’s going on? 

Erin: Absolutely. I believe it was maybe January 10th, Golden Globes happened, and there was a moment where Jamie Lee Curtis was hyping her co-star, Michelle Yeoh, when she won Best Actress for her role in Everything Everywhere All at Once. it was caught on camera, and it was just this very visceral raw and authentic celebration that came across Jamie’s face. And if you saw it without context, the assumption would be, Jamie must be excited about something that she did, she must have won something, and the truth was that she was actually hyping someone else’s win. It wasn’t hers. So I wrote a post on LinkedIn that said, “Ladies, this is our 2023 mantra, unabashed hype woman. 

The reason why I think it took off the way that it did is first of all, there was an inherent truth to what I was talking about, and that inherent truth came through in calling out the elephant in the room, which was, women have been conditioned to see each other as threats. We have been told our entire professional careers, and even in our personal lives, that another woman’s success detracts from ours, that the light that is shining on hers dims the light that could be shining on ours. And so, the premise of the post was to say, it is no one’s fault that they believe that. It has been conditioned and ingrained and really instilled in us, both societally and perhaps even through your own family, but also in corporate America, but we have a choice. Do we want to keep doing this? Because we are enabling it the more we participate. And so, the push was, do something different. Instead of having that feeling and then looking away from her win, or asking if she really deserved it or diminishing or minimizing it, celebrate her. Shout it to the rooftops, act as if it’s your own, because it isn’t going to actually take away anything. That’s the scarcity mindset that we have been brought up with to make us smaller and more quiet. 

So when I wrote that post, it went viral on LinkedIn, but where it jumped off the LinkedIn pages was because one of Jamie Lee Curtis’s friends sent it to her. They saw it, I don’t know who the person was, and so she posted it on her Instagram account to her 4.9 million followers, which is more than my 43,000. And she said, “This is just me being myself in a moment that was purely meant to show gratitude, respect, and celebration for Michelle, who absolutely deserves this. And then it just got picked up in many other places. So within probably 48 hours, it was in probably 15 different publications from the Today Show, to HuffPost, to People, to The Guardian, and then my favorite was actually an Upworthy piece. Because a lot of the posts were about the shirt that I created, that then Jamie Lee Curtis, I sent to her, and the meme itself. But I think the real focus should have been, and it was in this Upworthy piece on the seismic shift in the way that women view one another. And so that’s what’s happening here. 

And it’s continued, and we’ve continued to push this moment forward. Women are celebrating each other on social platforms and thanking women that have been a part of their journeys. Men are celebrating women because this is about hyping women, and so the hype can come from anywhere, but the women hyping women was the real critical adjustment to, again, the conditioning. And I bought hypewomen.com. As I said, my toxic trait is purchasing a lot of websites that I never use, but this time, I did something with it. And so, I pulled together a couple of women owned brands to just kick off the platform, McBride Sisters, the largest and first black women owned winery in the US. It’s been around for 17 years. Farm Girl Glowers, women-owned, been around for 12 years, multiple other really incredible women-owned businesses, because again, my premise, what I want the Hype Women movement to be about, that is what Ella has always been about, is the notion that when it comes to women in positions of power and influence, and in particular women of color in positions of power and influence, it has never been about ability, aspiration, or ambition. It’s always been about access.

Julia: Totally! I even think in my own life, I hate talking about myself or my business, but my husband will be like – even just the other night, he’s like, “Oh, I’ve got her business card, I’ll just go get it for you.” And I was like, I don’t even carry my own business cards. I will say part of that is my needing just to separate my personal and my work life. But it is interesting that as women, like you said, we don’t have to pick whose fault it is, but it is something that we’re conditioned to do, is to quiet ourselves in a way. What are some of the things that you have found to help you undo that?

Erin: I will answer that, Julia, but I wanna address something that you just said that’s super interesting. Hyping another person sometimes can be hard, but it is so much easier than hyping yourself as a woman, because again, that’s conditioning. We’ve been told that when we do that, it’s selfish, it’s bragging, they have all of these really negative connotations that are applied to those words applied to women. Men talk about themselves, they’re leaders, they’re innovators, they’re entrepreneurs. So as much as we have to hype other women, we also have to hype ourselves as a part of that deconditioning and unlearning. And so that was part of the message as well. Talk about what you do, and what you’re bringing to the world, and what you’ve done, and then we will come and surround you, because that is going to be the thing that’s gonna help get through that angst of putting yourself out there and saying the thing, and not getting that blowback of why are you talking about yourself? So that’s one piece. And then the other thing you said that I think is really interesting is that you were like, “Oh, I didn’t have my business card because I try to separate my personal and my profession.”

Julia: Now you’re gonna tell me I shouldn’t!

Erin: I’m not gonna tell you to do anything. What I am going to address that you can make a decision how you want to navigate, is again, this notion, where does that come from? Is some of it because I just don’t want people to think I’m trying to always get business from them, I don’t want them to think that I’m using them, I don’t want them to feel that our friendship is not pure. Guess what men do all the time. They do business all the time! They don’t think any of those things because no one ever told them to. I feel you, and I’ve had that same experience of, what’s the line here? But again, we’ve been told that, and we’ve been made to feel that so that we stay smaller. We see less successful.

Julia: You’re absolutely right! 

Erin: Because why in the world would you not, if it makes sense, talk about your business with people that love and care about you? Those should be the people that you talk about it with first. My favorite thing to do in the world when you’re having a moment like that, is to ask yourself two questions. The first is, do I feel this way because I’ve been conditioned to feel this way, or because I really feel this way? And then the answer will always be, it’s because I’ve been conditioned to feel this way. It’s one of those trick questions of the tree. And then the second question is, do I wanna make a different choice? So you can say to yourself, I’ve always been conditioned to think that it’s inappropriate to talk about business with my friends, and they’re gonna think it’s weird. And you can say, I’ve been conditioned to feel that way, but I’m gonna stay there. That feels better to me. That is absolutely your choice. No one is gonna make you do something different. But if you wanna make a different choice and you wanna go into that space of the unknown where actual real growth happens, you’ve gotta test it. So it leads to the question that you just asked, which is how do I do those things? It is a lot of putting myself out there very vulnerably, and then stepping away and letting it be. 

I have only been able to do that truly in the past year, because when I turned 40 in March last year, for the first time, I did not work for someone. And even though in the previous two and a half years, that’s four years ago, I was in a company that I founded with two other women. I was not completely independent in decisions that I was making or supported in decisions that I wanted to make. So I’ve come into my own in a new way in this past year because I don’t have any of that holding me back. I don’t have the previous 16, 18 years of my professional experience being dictated by people who were part of a system that was not built for me. And in a system that I inherently was always questioning and challenging, and I was told that I better know my place. So it’s not possible for everyone to be as direct, or, I don’t even know the word I wanna use because I think the word is a label, but talk about hot button issues in the way that I do. And again, is it interesting that hot button issues surround race and gender? 

Julia: You just touched on something like, there’s power dynamics at play. When you are a sole entrepreneur, you have power over your income, power over your business, but sometimes, the different power issues can also prohibit us to be as open about other things sometimes too. And so, I think it’s important to be safe within that too.

Erin: Oh my gosh! Power is everything. And often, power and money go hand in hand. But the power dynamics in a corporate environment mean that no one is ever psychologically safe.

Julia: One of the things, going back to your questions, I like your questions better. I heard somebody else once upon a time, they were like, “If you, as a woman, are trying to figure out if you should do something, ask yourself, would a man do this?” I have asked myself that question before. It was a useful question, but I really like your set of questions better because it’s not about me comparing myself to somebody else, it’s like, am I conditioned to think this? And do I want to break out of that or not? And so, it’s very much like, I get to pick my own style. I don’t have to pick this masculine style to present myself, I just get to pick my own style.

Erin: That’s exactly right! Because the archetype that is glorified in America is a straight white male, and there is a very specific leadership style that comes along with that, that is all-knowing, sometimes quite aggressive, very dominant. And that is not a one-size-fits-all. It doesn’t work everywhere, it doesn’t work for everyone. And so, women really challenge that archetype when they’re in those roles and they lead differently, they lead with empathy, they lead with their intuition, it’s just a different way. But I think the conditioning thing is really interesting because everyone can ask themselves that. It can be a man asking himself, am I saying this to my partner or my spouse, my wife, whoever, because I really believe it, or is this what I feel I’m supposed to be saying? And then what do I wanna do with that information? So conditioning is one of the most powerful motivators of action, and deconditioning is going to be how we dismantle systems that were not built by or for us.

Julia: Onto another system, you had one of the 100 most influential LinkedIn posts in the last decade, and it was a lot. It started around pumping and breastfeeding. I just reread it. It was so good, as someone who just stopped. My child was born with a cleft palate, so I had to exclusively pump for 10 months. I felt some of the same feelings that you did when you stopped, because our brains are going everywhere and there’s hormones everywhere. You were really raw, very honest about it. Do you think that’s what made it so influential? Why do you think it did what it did?

Erin: Part of it was, it was what was happening in the world at that moment, and it was the formula crisis, that some of my friends who are still either breastfeeding, pumping or formula feeding have told me that it’s still happening. And so part of the reason that I believe it took fire the way that it did is because there was a crisis happening in modern day America around formula shortage. And the first response from people who were incredibly ignorant about the reality of what breastfeeding is said, “Just breastfeed. It’s free.” And so that was why it just hit women in a way that was women that either enjoyed the experience of breastfeeding or did not enjoy the experience of breastfeeding, or decided intentionally that breastfeeding wasn’t going to be for them, or had it decided for them because of any factor. Every single one of those women knows well that that statement, just breastfeed, it’s free, is false. And so I think that just addressing that was the first thing that resonated, but then sharing my personal experience, that was a really difficult experience, and one that was met with a lot of shame, and met with a lot of blame mm-hmm. Some of it was done to myself, and some of it was done because of what I was conditioned to believe, and some of it was done based on just again, a lot of really ignorant people who don’t understand it being in positions of power and influence in the world that made decisions around our lives. 

I think women just saw themselves. They saw themselves in that story, and it was an act of permission to share in a space where we had been told it was inappropriate. So that was the other piece that was happening, Julia, is that, how dare I talk about breastfeeding and pumping on a professional platform? And so that was this other stigma that was being addressed, and my whole premise was corporate America, you can’t have it both ways anymore. We’re fed up. You want us back to work immediately, and we have to navigate how we’re going to be miles away from our child and provide for them in one way, shape or form while we’re still recovering, and yet you don’t want us to be there fully as that person. You don’t get to keep doing this to another generation of women. And so it was those things. It was like talking about a topic that was really timely and needed, and the narrative needed to be corrected. It was doing it in a place that we had been told we weren’t allowed to, and we didn’t give a anymore, and it was being raw and vulnerable about something that made a lot of people uncomfortable. 

So I think that when women start to realize our collective power is 51% of the population, half of the labor force, 85% of consumer buying power, if we really realize that power, we will start to make incredibly different decisions about the way the world works, because there are more of us. And so I think that’s why that was such an intense conversation.

Julia: One of the things that I’m most thankful for are moms who’ve gone before me. And so even hearing that story where I could see part of myself in it, and then also realized that – we had to pump and do formula – and so realizing, okay, we are also in this situation, and we were really grateful that we had something to fall back on, but I had friends who we were mailing formula, we could find in Utah somewhere else. And when you suddenly are threatening a mother being able to feed their kid, we already have a lot going on, that’s just one more thing. And so, I’m really grateful for it. I’m curious, I wanna talk a little bit about these viral posts. You’ve had several, what has that experience been like? This is why I’m asking. I feel like everybody’s like, oh, I want my post to go viral. There’s no magic button that you can be like, “Press, here’s a viral post.” At what point is it a good thing, and at what point is it a hard thing?

Erin: It’s always a hard thing. Because the more you are out in the world about what you think about something, the more feedback you get, and it comes in positive and negative forms. It isn’t always equal many times, it’s much more positive than negative, sometimes it’s the opposite. But the challenge that comes along with a post getting as much attention as one does that meets that criteria of being considered viral, is that there are a lot of people who are not happy with what you’re saying. And so you have to be so strong in your convictions that you can withstand that questioning of your character, the implication that decisions that you’ve made have been wrong, left, right and center, you’re not smart, you don’t know what you’re talking about, all those things. But again, when my perspective is often framed around that idea of why are people saying things? They’re saying things largely because they’ve been conditioned to believe them, they’re saying things because they’re afraid, they’re saying things because I’m challenging a core value of theirs that might be different than mine. And so, what I recognize is that I am not gonna be for everyone, I’m not gonna say something that everyone agrees with. That isn’t my intention. 

The reason that I write what I write about is because I feel responsibility to use the privilege that I have just because I was born as a straight white woman, and we live in a society that puts more value on that than so many other people. I better use that privilege to teach something important and to challenge the systems that are inequitable. So beyond that, I also have to use the platform that I’ve created because I don’t answer to anyone but myself. You can have a lot of things that can line up totally that can make posts totally go viral. So those things exist, but it is always dependent upon the audience, and what is striking someone in that moment that makes them want to interact with that, engage with that, share it, and all of those things. So the more attention that my posts have gotten, the greater that my following has become, the harder the conversations are, the larger the blowback is, and the more strength I have to have in conviction in who I am and what I inherently believe

Julia: I think one of the things that you mentioned is it very clearly attracts or repels people. These are obviously your convictions, but it also happens to line up with the convictions that help you run your company too. So you’re attracting and repelling the people who you want to work with or serve. Tell us a little bit more about Ella, and what you do with Ella.

Erin: Yeah. I think that’s an important point, and it is reflective of the fact that I created a company around what I am, who I am, what I believe in. So for the first time, it was like, well, this is just a lot simpler, to really be the place that I’ve always wanted to be and never have been. The premise and what I wanted to do is I wanted to get back to focusing on women. I believe that the greatest impact that I can have is going to be in addressing the issues that women face, and in coming up with solutions to change those circumstances and those conditions themselves. And so, I wanted to create this place, physical, not physical, where we would take on the premise of what a golf course is. Men have been doing business on the golf course for 300 years. Straight white men have been out there talking about money, talking about investments, giving each other back to our opportunities, and we haven’t been invited. And if we show up, we are not included. It’s a very different conversation. 

So it’s not about golf, it’s not about getting out there. It’s about an exclusive system, an entire business ecosystem that we are not a part of. And so instead of us trying again to break into a system that wasn’t built by us, for us, we just wanted to create our own thing. So our fairway, the way that we wanna do it is the way that is inherent and most natural and comfortable for women, and it’s to get together over dinner, and to bring these women together in a space that is smaller, and is intersectional and inclusive, and to allow for those natural interactions to happen, but to then push women to talk about money and talk about what they need to move their business forward, whether it’s their own personal business or their role inside of a larger company. 

We are told so often not to ask for things and ask for help because it makes us look weak and makes us look incompetent, it makes us look self-serving. But when you set up the premise of the conversation to be you are here to do that, and we are here to receive it, it changes things, and so women do business with each other. And so from these dinners last year, over the course of eight weeks, we did six dinners in five different markets. We were in Chicago twice, we were in New York, we were in LA, San Francisco, DC. We brought together 120 women, and we created 2,400 curated connections from that, we opened up 50 job opportunities for women that came to next dinners, we got access to 75 unforgettable meetings with either someone in that room or one or two degrees of separation that they got another woman into that room, and we increased their wealth by more than 2.5 million. 

Julia: That’s awesome! 

Erin: So that’s what we did in eight weeks, self-funded. We had our first dinner of 2023 in Chicago on Wednesday, and we’re gonna be in New York on 7th. And so, we’re continuing this. And from that, what we created was a membership and an app so that the conversations didn’t begin and end in that room, but we created a really simple way for these women to stay connected and to keep coming back to each other and saying, “Here’s what I need now.” And so the asks in the app look like, I’m looking for paid speaking opportunities. If you have them, or you know someone who does, please pass my name along, and then we can get them. So instead of us all doing a million things behind the scenes and trying to seek them out, what if we just use each other’s networks and access to each other’s networks to do the thing that men have been doing? Because men don’t operate from a place of scarcity, they know there will always be a place for them, and so they are more willing to give to one another. And we just have to get better at that, and we have to recognize that we deserve that too.

Julia: What I love about it is that you’re creating a safe space for people to be brave because then as women enter these other ecosystems, we have practiced. I think it’s like a muscle practicing, that you eventually have this muscle memory and it feels more natural, but where nobody’s looking at you in those spaces that you’re creating and being like, “Well, how dare she?”

Erin: It’s a really good point. And what I didn’t realize until we started doing it was that even more support was gonna be necessary to do this. It wasn’t just going to be, now we’re here and we’ve communicated the charge, it was gonna be, and you’re gonna need a little more support to even get there because this is still not innate to you because you haven’t had the practice or you haven’t done it. And so, fumble through it with us. It was so interesting at our dinner in Chicago, there was a woman who was a former CMO of a Fortune 500 company, and she was just talking about choices that she was making, and I knew a little bit more of her backstory and what was currently going on, and so she shared where she was, and what she was looking to do, and I pushed her a little and said, “Can you share this other piece?” And when she did, everyone just surrounded her in support and invalidation of how she handled it. So we need that too. That’s that hype women piece of this that says, you did something different against the grain, you challenged a system, you likely were not met with open arms when you did that, but when you turn around, we will be here. We’re gonna be the ones who are here with those open arms, going, “That was hard and it sucked, but you did it and you’re gonna be better for it, and you’re creating a better path forward for the rest of us.” And so that is what we need to look to one another for as well. 

I remember a long time ago, I was on Rebecca Minkoff’s podcast, and she said, “Do you think sometimes we’re doing ourselves a disservice by just gathering a bunch of women in a room?” And I said, “I think we need both. Because we need the rooms with men because they need to hear about the experience, they need to make choices about how they’re gonna change their behavior, and so many of them are in positions of power, and so they are making decisions. But we also need the comradery that comes along with looking at someone who understands on a deeper level what you’re going through and just allowing you to fall into that.” And so, I wouldn’t lean away from saying stop just getting all the women together. It’s like, well, there’s a lot of us, and there’s a lot to be discussed that’s really personal, and we haven’t yet been told is appropriate in other spaces. And so until we can do it with each other, we’re not gonna be able to do it there.

Julia: For sure! And I think that one of the things that we’ve talked about is even that deconditioning isn’t gonna happen in the same way in spaces that have men, because then we just revert back to some of – it’s easier to revert back at least to some of that conditioning. Whereas if we’re with women, then even just earlier when you were like, let’s just talk about this for a second, where we can challenge each other’s own thought processes without being worried of retribution or anything like that.

Erin: You have to remove the shame and the blame in order to get to the solution, because if you lead with shame and blame, people are defensive, and they can’t even hear what your message is. Again, when I am writing and I’m putting things on LinkedIn, I’m talking about really hard stuff a lot of the time, but it is calling out institutional issues that are not attached to individuals but are a collective problem with groups of people, and then offering a different way. And so that’s where I think we’re gonna get more support and movement, is when we take the shame and the blame piece out, and we instead we still talk about and we address what needs to be addressed, but we give people an opportunity to change.

Julia: No, I agree. I was starting at your LinkedIn,  I saw that you purposefully listed this break between jobs, and was like, “And this is the time that I took a break.” And you told the story about why and why you needed it. I used to work in a career office, and that was something that everybody was always like, “And don’t tell anybody there was a gap in your employment.” I read that and I was like, this is so truly in line with everything that I see in Erin’s work that like, let’s just call it what it is, and this was a break and I needed it, and it doesn’t make me a worst employee, or a worst woman for listing that this was a break. I just wanted to call that out.

Erin: Absolutely! What’s so poetic about that particular thing is I worked with LinkedIn to create the career breaks product and to launch it. We launched it in March, and then I left the company that I was at, and went on the career break. So I was like, this is the most meta moment of my life. And so why they were so smart, is they had an incredibly diverse group of people working behind the scenes on that product so that it was representative of those that needed it. The issue that we set out to address is exactly what you just said, which is a resume gap is a deal breaker so much of the time. It is a career killer. All of the things that we’ve been told, don’t talk about taking time off, don’t talk about not finishing college. What do you mean? These are just facts.

Julia: And they’re also universal happenings. It’s not like this happened to one person, a ton of people experience these things.

Erin: Exactly. And so again, it comes back to what we’ve been talking about, which is, if there’s a stigma attached to it, where does that stigma come from? Well, it comes from us being conditioned to believe that we’ve been told that. But if we really get under it, we know that more than anyone, women, and in particular women of color, but also people of color, they are the people who are taking career breaks. They are the people who are navigating a resume gap because it’s often due to caregiving, whether it’s caregiving for a child or for an elderly family member or someone who is sick, it’s leaving a toxic work environment without another job to go to.

Julia: Yeah. I worked with a lot of people who were incarcerated at one point, and what would make me so angry is I’m like, “We’re literally punishing people who’ve already done their time.” They did their time, and people change. It’s also this belief that if you go on pause – I mean, what is even a pause? But if you take a break for a year and a half, that there’s something deficient, when in reality, it can often lead to healthier human beings.

Erin: Absolutely! And I think to your point about what is going on during that time, it was putting the power back in the hands of the individual to talk about the life experience they had during that nontraditional work experience space. Because more often than not, the life experience that comes with that is incredibly applicable to whatever their career is going to be going forward. And so, let’s give people the tools and the language to share that, and let’s acknowledge that everyone’s experience is not linear.. It’s not A follows B, follows C, follows F, or maybe it would be B follows A. There’s a lot of meandering, there’s off-roading, there’s breakdowns. The car does not drive straight forever. It’s just not possible. And so, we have got to get more honest about the human experience and have more empathy in every facet of our lives.

Julia: I agree. Erin, this is great. I feel like I learned a ton. I feel very selfish. I feel like I should give you the money that I usually pay my therapist.

Erin: Keep that, I’m not a professional therapist!

Julia: But I’m leaving incredibly inspired, and I know all of our listeners will too. If people wanna keep track of you or get in touch with you, where can they find you?

Erin: LinkedIn is where I probably spend more of my social capital than other platforms. So follow me on LinkedIn, send me a message there. I’m on Instagram as well. But really I would say LinkedIn’s the best place to reach me and send me a DM. https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinfgallagher 

Julia: Sweet! Awesome! Erin, thank you. It’s been a privilege to get to know you and talk to you, so I appreciate it.

Erin: Thank you for having me, Julia.

Julia: Friends, thanks for tuning into this week’s podcast episode. I am so glad that you have, if you’ve enjoyed it as much as we have, I just ask you to subscribe so you know each time we have a new episode coming out. If you loved our podcast and want to give us a rating or a review, I promise we will read each and every one of them. A special shout out to our friend, Carson Childers, who is producing our podcast. We really appreciate him and all the hard work that he’s done for us.

Also, thanks to the Stratos team. They have been behind the scenes doing all of the graphic design, brainstorming, et cetera, et cetera. Really, this wouldn’t be possible without them. I’m thankful for each and every one of you guys. Lastly, listener, we’ll be back next week and I hope you will be too.